Blog 5
Fighter pilot.
Marine. Father. Husband. Friend. We
talked about each of these roles today in class. Some he did well; others he did horribly.
The general tenor of the class seemed to be one of trying to
see him as a good man based on his intentions. However, there was a countercurrent which held that Bull Meechum must be held accountable for
his actions, no matter his intentions, and when he is held accountable, what
the do we make of him then?
Maybe good or bad is the wrong question. It’s more complicated than that.
1. For those of
you who are going easy on him, why do you think you are going easy? How does your thinking go?
2. For those of
you who are hard on him, why is that?
Expalin your position.
As you answer one of these, take into consideration whether
it has to do with your view of what masculinity and what a man is.
What about love?
He has a wife who loves him, who we see in tender moments
with him, and who defends him to her children. We see Ben who, after grappling with his feelings, says, at
the end “I get it now” and “I love you, Dad.”
What do they
love about him?
We’re assigning the following people to answer #3:
Logan, Will Budie, Will Johnson, Sam, and Evan
3. What does
his wife love about him? Why do
you think she defends him?
other guys answer this one:
4. What about
Ben? Why does he love his
father?
1) Im not sure I was going easy on Bull, but I think a viewer has little to gain by just writing him off as evil. If we want to learn from our though process and pick apart the good and the bad, a complete teardown of Bull's character may not be the best path. That being said, we should not idolize or forgive him for being a soldier, trying his best, or any other excuse. He should be held to reasonable standards.
ReplyDelete2) I find Bull to be (as I mentioned in my last blog) an archetype of abuse. He follows the basic path of redeeming qualities and aggressive evils, and even when he is not physically abusive, he is not the most pleasant man to be around (i.e. him mentioning his daughter's breasts in a crude way). I also get frustrated when people are made (partially) exempt from criticism a a result of their intentions, as some are making Bull. I honestly believe that the results of one's actions should be considered first, and then it is up to the person wronged (not us, the onlookers) to decide if the person's intentions deserve forgiveness.
3) In some ways, it is unclear why Lillian loves Bull. She mentions in her letter to ben that her favorite quality in a man is gentleness. Bull seems to be very rough and hardened, not at all gentle. That being said, when he first returns, the Meechum couple shares a loving embrace and quiet discussion in bed, where Bull is very soft spoken and loving to her. This, combined with his description of her after she gave birth to Ben, leads me to think that Bull was once a more Gentle man, and that years of being a father and a Pilot has made him abusive.
I can see two reasons why Lillian defends Bull so frequently. The first I will address is fear. The fury that he can work himself up to is extremely frightening, and in her defensive of him, she lessens the potential for harm (to both her and her children.) The second reason she might defend Bull is a combination of love and naivety. Lillian seems to want to see the best in People, defending Bull when Ben questions his love for the family, and ignoring the signs of Bull in Ben's own personality to see him as a purely gentle creature. Both possibilities are frequent in abusive relationships, leaving us with the question. "Why doesn't he/she just leave?" In Lillian's case, she cant leave her kids, has no independent income, and does seem to love Bull.
1. I think that Bull has relatively little self-control. I also think he struggles to understand other people, so he doesn't fully recognize the damage he is causing to his family. Additionally, he knows no other way of life; he will not and can not consider changing his behavior. It's interesting that Lillian says tenderness is the quality she admires most in a man, while that is perhaps what Bull admires least. He is, to some extent, suppressing his emotions. We see that in the scene where he is drunk by the tree and speaking to himself, and we realize he believes repression is the best method of coping with a harsh world. We also see a flash of tenderness when he realizes that Toomer is dead. It's not entirely clear what causes this mental condition. It certainly has something to do with his own conception of what a man is. In my opinion, however, he is not a great man at all – I side more with Lillian – but I have sympathy for him nonetheless.
ReplyDelete3. I think Bull's description of himself as a warrior without a war is the best explanation for why the relationship has deteriorated so much. At one point he was loving and protective, and able to take out his anger in his jet. I would characterize Bull as a tragic hero. We've detailed his flaws, but he also has admirable qualities that are overshadowed in the movie. He is brave, disciplined, and honest, and he was a great fighter pilot. His personality is unpleasant, but it may have worsened over time. In those ways, he fits the ideal of masculinity in the 1940s and 50s. I think Lillian defends him because she is more familiar with his good side than the children are, but also because she is more aware of the stress and pressure he has endured. I think she understands his mind better than anyone does, even Bull himself.
Bull Meechum is a hugely energetic person who may have good intentions, but has an ego that gets in the way of that at times. Even if you assume that all of what he does to his kids is to "toughen them up for the world," he goes too far. The intentions don't justify mistake after mistake. His kids have demonstrated open animosity towards him, and yet his parenting remains unchanged. By this point, he should've realized his methods were not effective and changed. Bull Meechum is unable to change and admit when he's been wrong. But he doesn't always have good intentions at heart. When he loses at basketball, he is unable to admit it, and he gets mad. When he hits his son, it's out of rage, not love, and it's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. This is not a good father, a good husband, a good model marine. He seems to be a good friend to some, but the only thing he's really great at is being a warrior. He's a crackerjack pilot, and little more than that.
ReplyDeleteBen admires his father, a man who has lived through multiple wars and emerged as one of the top marine pilots. Bull is great at his job, but doesn't fit as a family man. When Ben sees his dad drunk on the ground, talking to himself, he realizes that Bull has gained some understanding for what he's done. He also starts to understand what drove Bull to make so many mistakes. Ben is able to love the good in Bull and accept the bad. This allows him to love his father, despite what Bull has done. He decides that he can support his dad and his family through the rougher times and appreciate Bull Meechum in the better ones.
I take the position of being hard on bull for many reasons. He is a grown man and must take responsibility for his actions no matter if his intentions where good. I believe there is no justification for hitting your wife or bullying your children and his intentions couldn't have been positive for either one of these. What makes it hard to understand Bull and know his intentions are the "roller coaster" mood swings he has when around his family. Some moments he can appear as a good father that might be doing the right thing and then the next he is bouncing a basketball over his sons head. It is easy to many some connections on how the bad things he does are ok because he has good intentions and I would disagree with this. I think we need to look at things the way they are and abuse towards your family is wrong. Alcohol is a big part of Bulls life, he escapes to the bars when reality catches up to him and he is annoyed by his family. I think that it might have an affect on how he treats his family too.
ReplyDeleteI think there are many different reasons to why Lillian loves Bull. Bull is without a doubt a very strong, brave, macho character. I think Lilian finds security in Bull, whether it be financial security or physical security. I just don't see why she would stay with him and protect him over the years if she wasn't getting something in return. Around Lillian Bull is pretty gentle and sweet (other than when he got physical with her). In the letter to Ben Lilian says that her favorite thing in a man is gentleness. This could be another reason she loves bull. I feel like she defends Bull often because it is hard to see her children who she loves so much beat up on her husband who she appears to also love greatly, like it would be hard for anyone.
The father has had a very difficult and tiring past. He has endured WW2 and still has PTSD from battling in the army and seeing things no one would ever want to see. Then he must come home to a normal family and a normal life. He still has many expectations for him and young children he must love and give constant attention. His competitive and violent lifestyle full of masculinity and testosterone must be converted into a calm and loving home. I go easy on him because I can understand how his mental state is out of his control. We must not judge him based on his actions, but on his intentions. He has pride and love toward his family and wants to protect them in any way he can. He has lived in a rough environment for a large portion of his life and has lived with other men just like him. So when he comes back home to a gentle wife and peaceful kids he doesn't know how treat them in any other way than how he treated his friends in the army.
ReplyDeleteThe family love him primarily for what he does in their life. He is their creator and protector as he has served many years in the army to protect his family. The father is also the supporter and giver to the family and provides a home with food and necessities. After time the family finds other reasons to love him. Ben realizes how proud his father is of him and how much he wants hm to have success. One of the daughters sees his love after the father buys her a very nice prom dress. There are times when the father does things to disrespect the family of scare the family, but they are all able to look over his flaws and view his intentions correctly. They see how much the father loves them after they hear he saved the lives of the people in town risking his own by crashing the plane.
2. I think I'm a little bit harder on him because of how different I perceive us to be. How I would raise my child is so unlike how Bull raises his, that it causes me to see the bad in everything he does. I discussed this with pavan after school today though, and he brought up a really important point. Although the Bull and I are extremely different in thought process and our belief in what the "right" way to live a life is, Bull stays true to what he believes, he stays true to how he wants to raise his kids, and he's the most loyal to the toughness and resilience he seems to constantly be trying to instill in his kids. In this sense, he may not be the best type of person, but he is who he is, and he stays true to who he is, and although I may disagree with it, it doesn't mean it's wrong.
ReplyDelete4. Ben loves his father because he's been raised to appreciate the ideals his father contains within him. He loves his father because he sees the toughness, and the fight his father has in him every single day he lives with him. These are all qualities he's been taught to embrace during his young life. I think what makes Ben really love his father though is the scene towards the end of the movie where Ben sees his father crying. He realizes that his dad isn't perfect and that he's able to release emotion as well, something Ben does a lot. This creates a relatable item for Ben to find between him and his father which instigates a type of special bond that Ben keeps within him, that seems to remind him of his love for his father, even when he is out of control.
I'm one of the people in the class who's easy on Bull. For most viewers (in my opinion), two things really make them perceive Bull as a good man at the end. One of them is the scene under the tree when Bull shows remorse, and goes through his past. It shows viewers (including me) that he understands his wrongdoing to an extent, and is sorry for it. While others may view that as an easy out for judging a person for being aware of the impact of their actions, I view it as a revelation, and as you see, he does a fairly decent job at changing himself. The other thing is that he dies. I mean, why would you lay into a man who just died on duty? His turnaround coupled with his subsequent death delivers a one-two punch that really wants to make you understand his ways before really getting on him. I discussed with William after school about his beliefs about intentions matching actions. After a brief discussion, we realized that while Bull's way of raising a family is very different from how Dollar would do it or I would, his intentions ultimately do sort of match his actions. He means well, and he is showing it in the only way he knows how to show it: as a warrior. He is a prime example of the age-old problem of not letting your personality/career/own life dictate how you raise your kids. To him, what he is doing is not wrong. its a matter of perspective. In the end, his family still loves him, despite any former animosity. And after his death, they obviously miss him. When I raise my kids, I will most likely project my interpretation of masculinity, which is not just the physical aspect of it, but also the mental and emotional aspects.
ReplyDeleteBen loves his father at the end of day because he is able to understand and respect the ideals of his father, something he has been raised to do since day 1. He loves his father because of the qualities that he sees in himself, which is the desire to set the world on fire, which is what Bull has spent Ben's life trying to teach. The scene under the tree is the pivotal moment in their relationship, when Ben realizes that his father is human, and capable of showing emotion and remorse for his actions. This shows Ben how his father really is, and that gives him the power to show his love for his dad. Before this scene, Ben "loves" his father simply because he is his father, and not because of the way his father is to him, to his family, and to himself. But after this entire sequence, he loves his father for what he really is: a warrior, albeit a drunken one.
In my opinion I try to not overly easy or overly hard on Bull's character because what's so compelling about him is how complicated he is. This is why in class I pointed out that there's a difference in being a good man and being a good family man. It's just like what we were discussing with Shane and Joe except that it's all tied in one very complex character. This is an internal battle between his personal beliefs and those of his family and the two don't seem to intersect very often. I see him as a fallen war hero but an abusive man and as much sense as it may make to his son it is impossible to truly make any conclusion on Bulls character whether you may make him out to be the hero or the villain. This is the success of this movie it provides a very real character and one that exists in a type of limbo of morality so no matter how hard anyone may try to dig at his character there is no right answer. I think the reason why Ben loves his fathers is the same reason why we all in some way look up to our fathers if they were present in our lives. His father in his eyes represents the ideal of masculinity and as his son Ben wants to grow up to be a man like his father. No matter how many flaws his father may have there is a strong bond between father and son that is hard to break. Bull is an awful father at times (most of the time) but just like in everything he does he is relentless and tries to be perfect no matter how wrong his perfection may be. The same thing can be said about the way his wife views his behavior.
ReplyDeleteI believe that I have been going extremely easy on Bull. I believe I feel this way about Bull because Bull's intentions are overall good intentions, he just doesn't have the skill or knowledge on how to act on these perceptions. I am a very emotional man, and one of the things I am most sensitive to is compassion and caring for another person. I think I see that in Bull. He does care about his children, his wife and the future of his family. I think that the image of masculinity is a major theme throughout the movie, but I don't think it should factor in when judging the character of Bull. He tries to instill in his children the value that have allowed him to become a successful man in the real world. These values, while extremely stereotypically masculine, are just a set of things that Bull attempts to teach his children as a parent. However, Bull doesn't understand how to transition from war to family, which results in strict, almost abusive treatment when teaching these values. I have a tendency to lean toward the extreme on most issues and this issue is no different. I do believe that not only is Bull not a bad person, but rather that Bull is a good person. What really matters is a man's intentions. The outcomes absolutely factor in, but in the case of this movie, the outcomes aren't bad enough to overpower the good intentions behind the bad outcomes.
ReplyDeleteI think near the end of the movie Ben figures something out that allowed to him to love his dad truly. At the beginning of the movie Ben's love for his dad went in cycles. Ben would talk to his dad in the car, then he would wish his dad was dead after the basketball game, then after the birth story where the jacket was given, Ben returned to loving his dad, etc. However, when he stumbles upon his father laying against a tree drunk, Ben listens to Bull's drunken conversation with himself. He relives what he was good at and laughs and cries at the notion of himself being a father. Ben realizes Bull has tried what he can in order to be the best father he could be, but found it hopeless. This allows Ben to love Bull for his intentions rather than outcomes.
I am in the boat that he is not a good father. He’s a Marine and always acts like one. Being a good Marine doesn’t mean that you are going to be good in the leadership position of a dad. You aren’t fit to be a dad when you’re idea of teaching your son to be tough includes assault. You aren’t fit to be a dad when you intentionally get your son drunk at a party. Does Ben end up being brave? Yes but that’s not because his father. When in the movie does he show off that he is brave? He puts people in danger with his mistake so when he died to ‘save the city’ he was just not killing people which isn’t that great. I also think the moment he beat his wife my little respect for him flew right out of the window. No one ever needs to hit their wife or children and when they do, it never does any good. Thats not a man to me. That’s a coward. Just because you can fly for the air force well doesn’t make you a brave man although that certainly helps
ReplyDeleteI don’t know why. I think often times people feel obligated to love their family although that should not always be the case. Sure, he wants what’s best for them and has some tender moments but that doesn’t mean he should be loved. If their dad was still in Spain but Lillian had a boyfriend that moved in with them and treated them the way Bull treats them, they’d absolutely despise him and get him to move out.
I think Ben loves his dad because Bull did instill some good things in him. Bull did turn Ben into a good man even though he put Ben through hell to get to the final point. He also does love his dad because (most) everyone says the love their dad no matter what.
ReplyDeleteI'm truly stuck in the middle, I think in every father son relationship you hear "my dad is such a hard ass" which happens to be Bens case, or you hear "oh my dad will let me do anything", in both scenarios it really just depends on the person and how they accept and handle how they are parented, some will go along and know what to do and what is not ok to do by what they have learned from how there father will react and others will be rebellious and fight against what there father wishes. In Bens case with Bull Ben understands exactly what his father wants and expects of him, Ben will follow his fathers rules to an exact order. The one time in the movie were we see Ben not follow his fathers orders he is slapped across the face, but then he finally voices himself to his father and Bull sees what a great man his son is and how he has truly taught him well. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't know how Ben would have turned out if is father was softer/harder on him, but the way he has been has turned his son into a damn good man.
I believe that she really loves Bull because of the way that he is there for the family and even though he is such a hard ass he will stop at nothing to protect them, Bull is a warrior as we have said in class and I think that nothing would stand in his way when it comes to protecting his wife and children and I think that's one of many reasons she loves him so much, now why she defendes him is another way she shows he affection towards him he can't do wrong in her eyes, he can mess up but she believes that he has a just reason for what has happened and it's really Bulls personality