SHANE. You were watchin' me down it for quite a spell, werern't you? JOEY. Yes I was.
SHANE. You know, I...I like a man who watches things go on around. It means he'll make his mark someday.
Here's the trailer to Shane when it came out in 1953. It was, by the way, a huge hit, raking in over 20 million dollars against the three million dollars it took to make.
Thrower, like you all, has never seen the movie, a classic American film. He called it straight-forward—as genre pieces (like a Western) often are (most of you know what's going to happen because you know how the genre works); yet at the same time he saw its complications. There's a whole lot of deep looks going on between our characters; Joey's looking at his dad and Shane and his mom; Marion is looking at Joey and Shane and her husband Joe; Shane is looking at all them and Joe; and Joe...it's not clear—but he sure is in love with his little lady, as he calls him. The tension here is not necessarily what is going to happen, but how it's going to happen, and what it will do to these decent people. It can't end happily.
But to the concerns of our class.
1. We talked about your concerns today as a young man. What do you foresee your biggest concern being in 10 years? In 20 years? In 30 years? Just one concern for each year.
2. In today's discussion, your concerns broke down pretty much into the following: concerns of
a. responsibilities
b. emotions
c. not knowing the future
d. relationships
Which of these do you think is the most important concern for not just you, but for young men your age—and why?
3. Shane: What do Shane and Joe offer little Joey in terms of modeling a way for him to be? For each adult, give the main thing he offers Joey. And who do you see Joey leaning toward at this point in the film—and why do think this?
4. Finally: you're Joey. Who do you lean towards-and why?
That's plenty. We're looking for about 300 words in total for your response to the questions. Good class today. See you guys tomorrow.
SHANE. You know, I...I like a man who watches things go on around. It means he'll make his mark someday.
Here's the trailer to Shane when it came out in 1953. It was, by the way, a huge hit, raking in over 20 million dollars against the three million dollars it took to make.
Thrower, like you all, has never seen the movie, a classic American film. He called it straight-forward—as genre pieces (like a Western) often are (most of you know what's going to happen because you know how the genre works); yet at the same time he saw its complications. There's a whole lot of deep looks going on between our characters; Joey's looking at his dad and Shane and his mom; Marion is looking at Joey and Shane and her husband Joe; Shane is looking at all them and Joe; and Joe...it's not clear—but he sure is in love with his little lady, as he calls him. The tension here is not necessarily what is going to happen, but how it's going to happen, and what it will do to these decent people. It can't end happily.
But to the concerns of our class.
1. We talked about your concerns today as a young man. What do you foresee your biggest concern being in 10 years? In 20 years? In 30 years? Just one concern for each year.
2. In today's discussion, your concerns broke down pretty much into the following: concerns of
a. responsibilities
b. emotions
c. not knowing the future
d. relationships
Which of these do you think is the most important concern for not just you, but for young men your age—and why?
3. Shane: What do Shane and Joe offer little Joey in terms of modeling a way for him to be? For each adult, give the main thing he offers Joey. And who do you see Joey leaning toward at this point in the film—and why do think this?
4. Finally: you're Joey. Who do you lean towards-and why?
That's plenty. We're looking for about 300 words in total for your response to the questions. Good class today. See you guys tomorrow.
1) my biggest concern in 10 years will probably be bridging the gap between the academic and business world. I have two old brothers, on who is 26, and the other is 22. Both have been fairly lucky in finding jobs out of college, but my future sister in law who is also 26 struggled to find a job despite being overqualified and having three years of teaching in a past city. This has been very difficult for her and as a result my eldest brother has been Stressed along with her.
ReplyDeleteIn 20 years I think my biggest concern will be starting a family and providing for my family. As the man, I'm going to be expected to focus on work and money while my wife will be forced to stay home with the kid or we will hire help. That is assuming we don't break gender norms and I become a stay at home dad, which I would be fine with but doesn't fit the stereotype.
In 30 years I think my biggest concern will be growing old and losing my physical ability, as that is a major part of how I define manhood. If I can no longer lift as much as I once could, or run without aching, am I still as much of a Man?
2) I think the biggest concern for young men my age is relationships. From a young age, we are taught to act in a certain way as to be attractive and appealing to girls. The only way my mom got me to cut my fingers nails as a kid was to tell me girls think it's gross. In 5th grade we wrote a letter to our future selfs, and it seemed all I asked about was if I had kissed a girl yet, or had a relationship. The media and tv shows highlight the hero or stud in their ability to get girls, and the nerd as being socially inept with girls (I.e. Joey vs. Ross.) All of this combines to make many guys define their worth upon their relationship status.
3) Shane offers Joey a hero to look up to; a man who doesn't get pushed around (much) and stands up for what he believes in. Joe on the other hand seems to be weaker, but is a wholesome man who seems to be at the forefront of the community and organizes meetings. Joey is faced with a choice of the badass cool "Uncle" vs the family man father. Joey certainly seems to lean towards Shane, as he follows him devotedly and idolizes him. The scene where Joey asks Joe if Shane will teach him how to shoot displays Joey's lean towards Shane.
4) As Joey, I would without a doubt lean towards Shane. Joe is my father, he has raised me and kept me safe, but is by no means spectacular or my hero. Shane on the other hand is fresh, heroic, handsome, and strong. I (Joey) seek adventure and dream about gunfights and sticking it to the bullies of the town, and that's just what Shane is doing.
ReplyDelete1) Similar to what William J. was saying, I think my biggest concern for myself in 10 years is transitioning from being academically focused to business focused. Also understanding the fact that I will be on my own, without the help of my parents and have to prove for myself will be challenging. 20 years from now I can see a concern in raising my own family, and the struggle that creates. Not only having to prove for myself but for them also. In 30 years I think the biggest concern of mine will be my parents in there old age. Knowing that I might not have much time left with them will be upsetting, and is something I know I will struggle with.
2) I think the most important concern for young men is responsibilities. I think it's difficult sometimes for young men to fill the default roles society places us in. Such as always having to be the toughest and the leader, although at our school I feel like and we discussed that the girls are the ones pushing the hardest. On a different note there is that double standard with young women of this generation in that chivalry appears as not a sign of respect and southern gentleman but almost disrespect, all when the man was just trying to carry out his responsibilities the way he might have been taught.
3) I think Joe offers Joey an authentic realistic life, while Shane offers all characteristics a man would hope for. Shane is obviously the prefect stereotypical man of this time and that why I think Joey is leaning more towards him, just like anybody would. I think this because Joey is just intrigued and fascinated by Shane life style and set of skills.
4) If I were Joey I would probably be leaning towards Shane because is the prefect cowboy but as Joes son I would pick him over all.
- Sam Smith
I am concerned about how I'm going to be able to manage the pursuit of my dreams and current well being in 10 years. As of right now, I want to work in sports business, preferably in the front office of a professional sports team. I know that spots in sports management and business aren't as plentiful as others, but I would still like to realize this goal. However, I am worried about not being able to achieve this goal, and the possible harm it will do to me if I over pursue this goal. In 20 years, I'll be worrying about having a family. I have always wanted to have a family, and I constantly worry about anything that will put that in jeopardy. In 30 years, I worry that I will not have accomplished what I want to accomplish, whatever that may be.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, relationships are one the biggest concerns in young men. Relationships are viewed as an important part of life, but there is no rule book or instructions on how to proceed. In high school/ college students, the desire to be in a relationship is high, but there are many people who have no idea how to proceed, I being one of those people. Men are viewed to initiate relationships and be the driving force, but men have trouble figuring out what they are supposed to do leading to "mess ups" that are somehow the man's fault. These relationships, if done wrong, can damage a man's self-esteem and effect him in other areas of life.
Joe offers stability while Shane offers strength and masculinity to Joey. Joe has "put down his roots" in one small little plot of land in the west. He doesn't travel much and is a honest, hardworking man who tries to offer the best life he can to himself and his family. Shane, on the other hand is a cowboy, a role model to a young boy. He is strong both mentally and physically and isn't afraid to fight those who anger him. Joey obviously leans towards Shane because Shane offers a cool, new and exciting perspective of life that Joey had never seen before.
If I was Joey I would lean towards Shane, but need the mother's advice and not grow to attached. Shane is a cowboy who is a little on edge, about something as shown by his jumpiness near the beginning of the movie. Shane will need to move on, but he will do so after bringing harm or benefit to the family. Joe is a hardworking man with all the values of a good man and Joey will eventually realize and appreciate that.
This is Logan. I have no idea why I'm called John A.
ReplyDelete1. 10 years: My biggest concern must be adapting to independence. All young adults, but especially men, face a new phase in their lives when they leave their parents' home. Adults are expected to make decisions with confidence and to provide for themselves.
20: By the time I'm 36, I'll likely have a family. While mothers are expected to interact more with children, the security and stability of the wife and children is typically the father's primary responsibility. Also, as a father, I would be very invested in shaping what kind of person my son or daughter becomes. If I have a son, I wonder what I'll want to do differently from my own parents.
30: At this point parenthood is less stressful, but still consuming. Like Will Johnson mentioned, I think I would be concerned with finding new things to do and new ways to define myself – I will have all the obligations of a father and a person in the middle of his career, but I probably won't have the same interests I did when I was younger.
2. The primary concern, which I would categorize under “responsibilities,” is the responsibility or pressure to act like a man. At this point, we aren’t quite men, but we’re trying to get there by acting “mature” – taking ownership of our actions, doing masculine things (sports, etc.). The idea that there is a certain Platonic ideal man – a sense of what it means to be a man – can hurt people who can’t live up to that ideal. This is the simplest description of what I expect this class to be about, and it is a topic that is particularly relevant for people our age; as boys, we did not face as much pressure to fit in as we do now.
3. Joe offers safety, caring, and even love. He represents the home, the support Joey can rely on. Shane represents a different kind of masculinity – individuality, as you put it. Shane symbolizes violence and strength, adventure and risk. I don’t think Joey yet sees the choice between Shane and his father as a dichotomy. He admires Shane, but the only sign that his respect for his father is diminished is his question of whether his father could win in a fight. Though Shane is well-mannered and suave, he demonstrates a more primal form of manhood – a world where a man physically fights to show his worth.
4. I have to go with Shane. He is unfamiliar and hints at an unknown world. Joe is principled but simple, or provincial. And even now I would be impressed by Shane’s boxing. The fight seen is unavoidably inspiring.
In 10 years I will be concerned about my career. I will be worried about whether or not I will be able to support a family or even my wife in the future. I will be out of college and hopefully have a job and be on my way to a stable career,
ReplyDeleteIn 20 years I will be thinking about my children and making sure I will be able to go be them the same opportunities I was given. I want to be sure they have proper education and go to a great school. I also will be thinks my about my parents and caring for their health.
In 30 years I will hopefully be in the middle of my job or career and working towards getting my kids into college. This will be a stressful time as I will be pushing them into their own lives and giving them a lot of responsibility and trust.
2. Responsibilities are a large concern for many people as they define who you are and what path you may take in your life. For males there are different responsibilities as males are responsible for being a defender and provider. Males have important yet equal roles in society with women as they are supposed to hold in their emotions even when they deal with difficult problems. These responsibilities carry over into relationships as there are even responsibilities with the interactions with other people. Relationships are what people have in the world and are something that remains living through ones life. Males must have strong relationships in order to succeed in life and gain reputations. These relationships also provide a future with others in marriage as well.
Shane offers a lot to Joey even though he takes on the role of this ambiguous stranger. Shane is this masculine and fearless leader who never really expresses his emotions. Joey can follow after this in his future to avoid trouble with others and to make others intimidated by him. Shane is also a protector even though we have not clearly observed it in the movie yet. I can see Shane guarding Joey in a later scene. Shane also brings in this new idea that there is something else out in the world other than being a farmer which opens up a new possible career path for Joey.
Joe plays more of a loving, fatherly figure. While still a protector Joe is easily intimidated and isn't confident with his words. Joey can learn from Joe morally as Joe is a loving and kind father who wants to raise his child right.
I believe Joey will follow after Shane. After observing the miraculous bar scene, Joey is clearly interested in Shane and also his gun. Joe is less of someone to follow as a role model but more of a person to use specific lessons from and learn from morally.
I would lean towards Joe. Even though Shane is a powerful and exciting new character that seems very appealing and easy to follow after I would stick with my father because he was the one who raised me and taught me everything I know. The father Joe is someone who is always there for help and support while Shane just showed up and could disappear later.
By the time I turn 26 I think my biggest concern will be whether I want to continue my education and really what am I going to dedicate myself to work in since that's a very decisive time period in determining your career path for your life. When I'm 36 my biggest concern will probably be my children I'll be a full adult and I'd need to focus on raising my children right and setting myself up to be in a happy comfortable position, buying a house and saving up for my retirement. When I'm 46 it'll be about enjoying life since at that point your still young and have less responsibilities to other people but really it would be a responsibility to making sure me and my wife are in a happy and committed relationship. For me and I think other young men in my position which is most worrying is not knowing. Just like we were talking about in school there's a perception that men have to be in control and we're not able to do that when we're unsure ourselves of what going to happen. Not only that but because we have such high expectations as Paideia young men specifically anything less than amazing is failure which speaks to not only the pressures that we put on ourselves as males but as youth in general. Shane just offers another path which I think is important for a developing boy because it's really easy to fall into the rut of being unhappy since you can only do what you know of. The presence of Shane might also make him value his father and the life style he's been able to provide. In my opinion I'll grow up to be a family man so I really admire how hard working, passionate and humble Joey's father is.
ReplyDeleteI foresee my biggest concern in 10 years as being a transition into "the real world". If I go to grad school, I will have only been a few years out and will be trying to transition from going to school every day and having friends that I see every day, to possibly moving to a new city and having to meet new people. In 20 years many of my friends will probably be starting, or will already have started families, so there will be pressure to get married and have a family. In 30 years, hopefully I will have established what I mentioned before, and my main concern should only be looking towards retirement, which is still many years away.
ReplyDelete2. I think for young men my age, relationships are very important. Not necessarily romantic relationships, as I don't think having serious romantic relationships are necessary at our age, but they can be nice. I think it's important to have good relationships with adults, friends, teachers, etc. Relationships can provide a lot of opportunity and can help a lot both now and, more importantly, in the future.
3. The main thing that Shane offers Joey is adventure. He is the result of a man who never committed to one woman or living in one place. He shows him the possibility of adventuring across the West and being a cowboy. This seems like a glamorous, exciting life, and it is at times. Joey is too young and immature to realize the bad parts of being a cowboy, and that Shane may, surprisingly, envy Joey's father. Joey's father shows Joey structure. He has committed to where he lives, and as he said, he will need to be taken off of the land in a coffin. He is loyal to his wife, his child, and his work. While being a cowboy may seem like the obvious, exciting choice, many men in this time period choose to be a farmer/family man, and Joey does not realize how this can be rewarding as well.
4. If I was Joey, I would lean towards Shane, as I think when I was young, it would be exciting to live like a cowboy. However, as I got older and matured, I would eventually lean towards Joey's father and want to settle down and start a family.
1)10 years-Well there will be pressure for me to be in grad school or have a decent entry level job. I'll need to be on my own and off my parents money.
ReplyDelete20 years-I'll need to have a good job by this point. Definitely pressures for me to be married and having kids.
30 years-I need to have money saved for me and my family so I can look forward to retirement. Pressure on my kids' success.
2. Relationships to me are probably the biggest concern for young men our age because I feel like the other things tie into relationships well. In our relationships with family we need to be strong. When our family members are having trouble we need to be a strong support system. With romantic relationships there are pressures for us to be the instigators. We also have to be the support system for our girlfriends, not the other way around as much. When things go wrong with girls, it’s most likely going to be blamed on the man for messing things up
3. Shane is a wonderer. He hasn’t stayed settled in one place for very long and he has a very violent past. Joe will teach Joey not to get pushed around and that family is the most important thing. Joey would pick Joe ultimately because he does love his dad more. This would be the correct choice.
4) If I were Joey I'd go with my father because he's been a rock in my life for a long time. Shane is clearly a wonderer who can't settle down. My dad is staying with my family and will not move even though everyone else is leaving around me teaching me how to stand up for myself and others.
1. 10 years I will most likely be looking for a beautiful wife, 20 years providing for my family, 30 years making sure my kids are getting a good education and doing what they want
ReplyDelete2. I believe that the 2 biggest challenge or concerns I have right now are not knowing what the future holds, along with responsibilities that I have and will soon have being on my own in college
3. I believe that Shane shows little Joey a strong and almost cool father figure, and shows him things and prospectives that his father has never brought to light, where his father Joey shows him more of a realistic lifestyle of farming and tending to the farm, I belive that little Joey looks more to Shane because he is new to his life and Is kinda a badass and something that little Joey has never experienced
4. Shane because he is a badass and is fye with the gun, and is a cool guy
In 10 years, setting a way of life for myself, and succeeding in that way of life, enough to be able to obtain a true happiness. In 20 years, a wife and kids and a more profound devotion to my work. In 30 years, retirement, when I'm going to retire, how I'm going to retire, will I be able to retire soon.
ReplyDeleteEmotion. As young men are pressured constantly into being stoic and unemotional, emotion is something we need to embrace, it's a beautiful thing that creates bonds and relationships that last lifetimes. Emotion needs to be let out, constantly, everyday. I think my generation is doing better with this, but past generations of males have cooped up emotion, repressing it within them, disallowing it to come out in productive or constructive ways, creating unneeded issues. Emotional men are admirable ones, because there aren't a lot that are able to do it.
Shane offers a more heroic, macho man approach to the world, secluded and alone. Joe gives a more steady approach to life. Joey takes Shane's side when Shane introduces him to a gun, and teaches him how to shoot (only a little), and he takes Joe's side at the end of the movie when he sees Joe fighting for his land and his family and what he's grown up with.
If I'm Joey i think I lean more towards Shane. In some ways I know the way Shane lives his life is not the way I'd ever think is right. But at the same time, it's incredibly admirable. He's alone in the world, dealing with all of his issues and emotions by himself, and he seemingly creates happiness out of something that isn't even there. For me, someone who's able to do that, who's able to be happy even through the pain and hurt and unhappiness that he obviously must be going through, that's really something. So ultimately I'll lean towards Shane, even though I know Joe is doing the "right" thing.
In 10 years, my main concern would be settling down in terms of establishing a definite career path, whether i attend graduate school or not. In 20 years, I would be concerned with the first steps of parenthood, and being a family man. Working at the office, but also managing a household (by this time, I would ideally have a wife and kid, living in our own house), financially, emotionally, physically. in 30 years, I would be getting ready to wind down, start saving up for retirement, prepare for life after supporting the family. I might also prepare for taking care of my own parents.
ReplyDelete2. Definitely responsibilities. As we grow, we start to realize the societal responsibilities we have, the role we are to fill. As one who constantly struggles with managing responsibilities, we must begin to perform our societal role in order to move on to the next stages of life.
3. As far as a role model goes, Shane offers the prime example of "the other side of life". He represents adventure, spontaneity, violence, awesomeness. He represents variety, the spice of life. Joe on the other hand represents the routine man. The family man, who takes care of his own, sticks together as a team. He represents the steadiness of Homestead Life, or of life in general. Shane is like the newest trend, a moment of craze where you aspire to be your very best, and look up to other characters. Joe is the ally taken for granted, a long lasting pillar for life. At this point, considering Shane LITERALLY RODE IN, Joey starts to look up to Shane. He wants that fun life, that gun-fighting life, though he does not truly know what that kind of danger that entails.
If I was Joey, I would definitely go with Shane. Just think about it: This enigmatic strong cowboy who has a mighty persona about him comes in to town, ready to beat up anybody who puts him or the family in harms way. Why WOULDN'T you be intrigued? He shows Joey a thing or two about violence and gunfighting. That's ridiculously cool.
In 10 years I see myself having difficulties transitioning into a business life where I can realistically support myself, as others have talked about before. In 20 years, I'll probably be wondering if I want to have children, and if I do, having difficulties with that. If not, there will be issues with figuring out what my mark on the world will be, as traditionally that mark is at least in part a man's effect on his children. In 30 years, I see my main concern being the monotony of life. Theres an expectation of a man dabbling and traveling, and at that point, I will quite possibly have been doing the same thing for a long time, and will be looking for ways to mix it up.
ReplyDeleteResponsibilities are the biggest concern, as you're expected to be able to juggle a variety of things. High school is the only time you have to do just about everything. Also, it's a time of transition, when you start to get more responsibilities legally and generally are given more by your parents. This feeling of having to do so many things and simultaneously needing to take on new responsibilities and be in new situations without as much support.
Joe is your average joe, capable of supporting a family and building a new life. He is the pragmatic, reliable man. Shane is the mysterious, strong, confident loner. He lives alone, just him and his horse. They are the contrast of the known and the unknown. Joe stays where his roots are, and won't leave his land until he is dead. Shane only wants to go somewhere he's never been before. To Joey, this newness is fascinating, but it's also dangerous, and Joe offers a sense of security. His life is more certain.
If I were Joey, I would lean towards Shane. His life is romanticized, and as a little kid, I would see only the good sides, the independence and mobility, two things a young kid doesn't have. Ultimately, I would probably become more like Joe, but Shane's life would draw me at least while I was young.