Here's the end of the fight between Adonis Creed and Ricky Conlan. Take a look at it.
Creed was both a box office success ($173.6 million) and a critical success. It doesn't necessarily break any new ground—it's fundamentally a genre film (boxing) that pays attention to all the tropes of the boxing film (the training montage, the relationship between the young fighter and an older trainer/manager, the big fight, the resolution of the fight being left hanging). If you've seen The Fighter with Mark Wahlberg and Christian Bale, if you've seen Million Dollar Baby with Clint Eastwood, Hillary Swank and Morgan Freeman—if you've seen Rocky—you know the plot. Critics have proposed that rather than a sequel to the Rocky films, this is a re-imagining of the original Rocky, an interpretation I agree with. If anything, this movie assures us that Michael B. Jordan is a major star, Sylvester Stallone is not a one-note washed up action star, and that Tessa Thompson can hold her own with these two talents.
So:
1. What did you think of the movie? What scene or moment stayed with you—and why?
2. What is Adonis—Donnie, Baby Creed, Kid—driven to prove? What's the meaning, the significance, of his telling Rocky that he's "not a mistake"? How does that reveal his need to fight, his need to not let Rocky call the fight?
3. What is Rocky's role here? Adonis calls him "Uncle." Rocky says he's proud to part of Adonis's family—even though, as Bianca notices, he's white. In the context of what Adonis is going through, in terms of his struggle(s), how does Rocky fit in—what does he give to young Creed?
4. What does it mean to you to prove yourself? Do you feel the need to prove yourself? Have you ever felt the need? If so, why and to whom?
Here's a young Michael B. Jordan in The Wire. And here he is in a promotion for Friday Night Lights. He comes in about a minute-eighteen in it.
I personally loved it. I think that it is good no matter how you label it (sequel or re-imagination). I thought the training montages were well done, I thought the romance was forced at the start but got better and better as the movie progressed. I rolled my eyes when Rocky got cancer but then with the “you fight, I fight” scene, I really got on board. I also really like the idea of the up and coming protagonist not losing the fight but instead winning because he wasn’t knocked out and lasted 12 rounds in the ring with the worlds best. This was especially good with the antagonist saying “you’re gonna be champ someday.”
ReplyDeleteHe’s driven to prove that he’s not a mistake by making something of himself. He wants to prove that he has a purpose in life and his way of showing that is by following in his father’s footsteps. He needs to fight to make his father proud. He doesn’t want to have the fight called because that would make him less manly.
Rocky is like a father. He’s never had a strong male role model in his life so when he goes to Rocky and Rocky supports him, believes in him, it means a ton. He becomes the first grown man ever to show him love as a family member and that is something Donny will never forget.
To prove yourself means living op to and exceeding expectations. When people doubt you and you prove them wrong or when people think highly and you prove them right. I do sometimes but not as much proving people right. Thats less motivating. When people tell me in sports that I’m not good enough that lights a fire under my ass and I work hard. That’s more so than someone telling me “I think you're good.” The former motivates me, the latter makes me go on cruze control.
1) I loved this movie, it was one of the few movies that left me wanting to change myself afterwards, similar to Captain American or the Avengers movies making me want to be a super hero, Creed made me want to learn to box. There were tons of moments that stood out to me as a great film making decision or great acting. One in particular was the series of memories flashing through Donnie's mind after Conlan knocked him out. The images seem to condense Donnie's motivation into a 10 second stream of emotion and life changing moments. The last image we are shown is Apollo Creed in the ring, and Donnie stands back up. The pure power and meaning of the moment really stuck with me.
ReplyDelete2)A man's worth is often judged by their physical accomplishments, or at least their accomplishments in their given profession. For Donnie, this is compounded by the need to prove he isnt "a fake creed" that he mentions to Bianca. His entire life, he hasnt had a father, and at the same time he has his father's legacy to live up to. This is why he has to fight, he has to prove that he is a Creed, and that he isnt an embarrassment.
3) Rocky seems to be Adonis's father figure. Donnie has never had a father, and we dont really see another father figure in his life (even his half brother leaves him alone). While a single mother can raise a great child, a father figure certainly helps. Thats what Rocky gives to Adonis, someone to look up to, to learn from, and to be motivated and protected by. The Adonis we see in the opening scene and in the jail cell scene is independent, rejects authority (he tells Rocky to get his sick ass out of here,) and is angry. Rocky seems to calm this in him, and accepts the father roll. An example of this is him covering over Bianca and Adonis with a blanket, and putting Adonis before himself.
4) I've certainly felt the need to prove myself in athletic competitions, as I am a fairly athletic person but not a natural born athlete like others. I want to succeed, and teenage boys often create an aura of competition (intentional or not) around training. During ultimate practices, I am motivated to show someone Im better than them, prove my skills, and become the "Alpha Male" type.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite scene was seeing Michael B. Jordan knocked out on the ground. We get to see his life technically flash before his own eyes. We see what he started his life with all the way until he is in the ring working for Rocky. We see how has grown and escaped his life in the penitentiary to a life of success. Overall I liked the movie more than I thought I would and I thought the casting for each of the characters was done very well.
His father had an affair with another women and Donnie was born from that women. Adonis needs to prove that him being born was not a mistake he must show that he deserves to be in this world and is able to have his own responsibility. Calling the fight would show failure and weakness which is something he cant have in his life. He also must prove that he doesn't need anyone to do his work. Adonis must show he is not a mistake in this world and was meant to be born. To avoid being a mistake in his life he must show he is worthy and special and is different than everyone else.
Rocky is both a role model and a father or uncle in this case. Adonis has never had a father figure in his life and Rocky fulfills this position. Adonis started in rough place with his mother and father being absent and he grew up in a penitentiary with other juvenile boys. He then took his life into his own and hands and was responsible. He worked hard for many years and eventually made his way to the best he could be. From there he handed over the work to a master, Rocky, who would make him even better and give him the confidence his father was never able to give him. He gives Creed a place in life and shows him how to succeed.
People only need to prove themselves when they have other people doubting them. In the movie, Adonis must prove himself to show other people in the world he exists and he is not a mistake. He doesn't do it for fame, but to show his presence in the world and his ability to fight. To prove yourself is to prove you are worthy or capable of doing something and sometimes I feel the need to prove myself. Academically i must prove myself to my parents to show I can work hard and get the best results. With sports I compete with other players of my age and to stand out I must prove myself and show how I am capable of succeeding.
RPersonally, I absolutely loved the movie. It was a thriller, and it really got me invested in the movie and the character of Adonis Creed. The scene that stayed with me most was the scene where Bianca locks the door on Adonis after Adonis gets out of jail. Adonis yells at her to not abandon him in this time of need yet she does. This just made me sympathize with Adonis here. He reacts to his sadness and frustration in the only way he knows how and now he has lost someone important to his life.
ReplyDeleteAdonis wants to prove that he is a different man than his father. He gains inspiration and talent, likely, from his father, but he wants to create his own legacy. He wants to prove that he isn't successful because his career was handed to him on a silver platter due to his name; he wants to prove that, as an individual, he is a good fighter. He needs to prove that he isn't just the son of affair, he needs to prove that he is a fighter and fighters finish until they are knocked out or the bell rings.
I think Rocky is a father figure for Adonis. Adonis grew up without a father, but he knew who his father was. He was inspired by his father and worked to succeed like Apollo did. Rocky, a friend of Apollo's, can offer the teaching and perspective of an older male, almost like family. Rocky gives him the leadership and lessons of a father, which Adonis has never had. Also, I think Adonis is having a bit of an identity crisis. He wants to create a separate legacy than his father, yet he is proud of his father and I think inspired by his father. He embraces both the name Johnson and Creed, and I think Rocky helps him realize he is both.
To prove yourself, you basically telegraph through actions or words that you are worthy of (insert something here) to everyone you can show. I care very much what other people think of me so I constantly feel the need to prove myself. In tennis, I irrationally try to prove that I am good at tennis to someone (or some people) that I don't know. It may be that I'm trying to prove that I am worthy to myself, or that I am making something up. Whatever the case, the feeling of needing to prove myself is a mental issue I have been fighting ever since I began competitive athletics.
I overall really enjoyed the movie. The scenes that stood out to me the most were the fighting scenes and also the scenes in which Rocky was motivating Adonis. I think these stayed with me the most because they were extremely powerful and moving and really tied the whole movie together.
ReplyDeleteHe is driven to prove that his success in boxing has nothing to do with his name and his father Creed. His father’s affair was a mistake and most everyone sees it as one, but the birth of Adonis wasn’t and Adonis is driven to prove that he was meant to be. The significance is that Adonis is seeing him self as somebody he is proud to be. It was not a mistake for him to be a good fighter, a champion, and that’s why they don’t call the fight.
Rocky is the father figure for Adonis that he never had. He gives young creed the drive and the confidence he needs. He also obviously gives him the training he needed to achieve his goals. On the other hand Adonis give Rocky the fight and drive he needed to over come treatment.
Proving your self is to show people who you are and what you deserve to accomplish. I have felt many times that I had to prove my self in sports or at a tryout. Also to my brothers growing up I often had to prove my self. Sometimes people need to prove them self to gain respect. In 7th grade I had to prove my self worthy of being my soccer teams captain. In order to I had work extremely hard to gain the respect of my teammates.
The movie was incredible. My favorite scene had to be seeing the city unite under Creed's leadership as he runs to the gym. Just about the entire neighborhood follows him with their motorcycles to see Rocky. This gave a deeper meaning to Creed's fighting and a stronger positive influence being shone onto the people under him.
ReplyDeleteHe's driven to prove he's just as good as his dad, if not better. When he tells Rocky he's "not a mistake" he's talking about his father and his mother's affair, it wasn't a mistake, his father loved him and wanted him to succeed. That's what Creed's been fighting for all of his life, he's been fighting to prove that he himself as a person was not a mistake, he has meaning, just like his father.
Rocky fits in perfectly as a father figure. His guidance and ability to lead Creed to make the right decisions and the right punches set him apart from everybody else in a special way. Ricky's love for Adonis is much more than any of the other trainers and its apparent in his visit with Adonis in the holding cell, and the sharing of his living space with Adonis. This gives Adonis motivation, and someone to love. With his mother pretty much disowning him because of his fighting, he needed someone to love and be there for him, Rocky fits this role perfectly.
I don't feel the need to prove myself much, mostly just when playing basketball. Going into open gyms and playing with other guys all I try to do is set myself apart from the others. You play well and they'll remember you the next time you come in and dap you up, but if you play badly, nobody's going to say anything to you and you won't be allowed on the court again.
I really liked the movie. It wasn't one of my favorites, but it was really gritty and thrilling and a good addition to the Rocky series, although it wasn't exactly a sequel. The entire fight between Donnie and Conlan stuck with me. I was on the edge of my seat from the second round when the two started trading punches until the end.
ReplyDeleteDonnie needs to prove to himself and the world that he is his own fighter and man and not just a kid who inherited the Creed name from his father. He also wants to prove that he is a big time fighter and not some kid who win some fights in Mexico and won one fight in America. This is why he doesn't let Rocky call the fight, he wants to be a part of the big-time boxing community and not just fight so that Conlan can go out in style.
As others have said, Rocky is like a father figure to Donnie. He has the same grit as Apollo and gives Donnie an idea of what Apollo might have been like. He was like a brother to Apollo, and this is why Donnie calls him 'Unc', regardless of his skin color. Rocky not only is a great trainer, but was also an underrated fighter who became one of the greatest ever, and can relate to almost all of Donnie's experiences and help him work through them.
As others have said, lots of teenage boys feel the need to prove themselves in front of others, especially in athletics. I have definitely felt guilty of this. In golf, there are usually not a lot of people watching one play, but if I'm playing with someone I don't know, or even someone random just happens, I feel the need to impress them. This happens with basketball as well, but not as much due to the fact that it is a spectator sport.
1. This was my favorite of the movies we’ve watched because its overall energy. I’ll remember the final fight for a long time: as Adonis and Conlan enter the ring, we know the whole movie has been building up to this one moment. Rocky’s motivational speech explains the theme of the movie, and the fight is a prolonged celebration of Adonis’s strength and growth. It’s notable that the fight is not the end of the movie – the director returns to the Philadelphia Museum of Art for a final reiteration of the Rocky franchise’s message: each person has his/her own fight against him/herself, and no one’s fight is impossible.
ReplyDelete2. He needs to prove that he has the discipline, drive, and ability to earn his own accomplishments. He wants to prove, more or less, his manhood. He is telling the world he that he has a purpose, that he can do things no one else can do. That’s what he means by “not a mistake.” As we see through the training montages and dramatic setbacks, the fight gives Donnie the opportunity prove everything he wants to prove – that he deserves respect and that, to repeat a metaphor, he is winning his fight against himself.
3. First, Rocky is Adonis’s only connection to the past and to his father. Rocky knows what he is going through. Additionally, the director and writers set up the script to put Adonis and Rocky on the same level (not simply trainer and boxer or uncle and nephew) – they are learning from and inspiring each other. It’s really just a movie about fighting, whether the opponent is a Merseyside tough guy or non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.
4. What does it mean to you to prove yourself? Do you feel the need to prove yourself? Have you ever felt the need? If so, why and to whom?
I don’t feel like Adonis does, but I always want to prove myself on a lesser scale. I want to prove my worth to anyone with authority (parents, teachers), and whenever I meet someone new I feel compelled to show them who I am. I don’t mean that in a conceited way; I often find myself mentioning things that make me proud or things that I care about when I meet new people. I want them to like me and even respect me, to know that I’m a valuable person. That even means pandering a little bit to the people I’m meeting; I want to emphasize things that will make people want me to be part of whatever setting we are sharing. I’m talking about proving yourself in a very literal sense, but I think the movie is also about proving yourself to yourself – having pride and true confidence.
1. Like I said, I had already watched it before, and was thrilled to watch it again. I liked some aspects of the movie even better the second time. I like the interpretation that Creed is a reimagination of the Rocky movies, and watching the movie again DEFINITELY ensured that I will get to watching the Rocky movies this summer. I enjoyed most of the fight, starting from the second round. I think I liked most the scene when the decision is announced, and Conlan wins. At first you think "the villain won?", but once you see Ricky tell Adonis, "You're the future of this division, you're gonna be champ someday", it really shows you the respect Conlan gains for Creed, since he just lasted 12 rounds the the world's best, despite being an up-and-coming fighter.
ReplyDelete2. He wants to show the world that he is a Creed, by not telling the world he is a Creed. He wants to make a name for himself, show the world that he is Adonis Creed, big time fighter and winner, not just the son of the greatest, Apollo Creed. He doesn't want to be stuck in the shadow of his father, and he certainly does not want to be known as a failed product of infidelity, but rather a product of a father, a product who will continue the legacy of Apollo and forge his own legacy in the process.
3. All about the fight. Adonis might as well call Rocky uncle, since Rocky is one of the last people who knows a lot about his own father, who Adonis didn't know. The two form a bond through Apollo and their own love of boxing. Rocky realizes Adonis is special, and probably wouldn't come to Philly if he didn't intend on learning from him and being the best. THey both influence each other in a lot of ways, and inspire eah other through the movie. Adonis willing to risk everything to fight helps Rocky fight too. They both engage in the fight of their lives, with Rocky fighting quite literally.
4. What does it mean to you to prove yourself? Do you feel the need to prove yourself? Have you ever felt the need? If so, why and to whom?
4. I feel the need to prove myself often. I have been told too many times that I can't make it. In basketball, in other sports, in academics, sometimes in life in general. It's not proving yourself to others like many talk about. I do it to prove to myself that I am capable. a year and a half ago, I would have never thought of playing varsity basketball, yet once some people gave me the idea and inspiration to do it, I thought I would go for it. However, I was told that it would be very hard to make it, and the odds of me making it considering my physical state and lack of experience compared to others wasn't great. However, I spent all of the summer looking to get better, seeking help from Coaches and friends, and in the end I was able to do it. I may not have gotten a lot of time, but it was a blast from beginning to end, and I still got buckets.
The boxing scenes were obviously the scenes that stayed with me, I love the fighting and the the intensity. For the movie to build off of his entire life especially with the scenes of him as a child definitely put him in a position where it's impossible to not root for him. No matter what he does at the end of the movie you want him to do all he wants you feel the same things. Whether it be the scene where he has to realize that Rocky is dying or when he's in the ring and your pushing at the table and wanting him to get back up. Within everyone is a drive to make a name for yourself, to find your own identity. His identity was the role of a troubled kid but that was stripped away from him once he gained an education then it was about being a boxer and a fighter but to do that he had to crawl above the shadow left by his father. Rocky is one of the last connections he has to his father and the only connection he has to the fighting side of his father something he knows his "mother" doesn't agree with. I always feel the need to prove myself, as someone who is on financial aid at the school I feel like I need to justify the belief and money being invested into me by someone who barely knows me. Not only for school but as a first generation child of immigrant parents I feel the need to justify their effort to make sure I was a part of this country.
ReplyDeleteI like the movie a lot, the parts that really stayed with me would be the jail scene where Adonis told rocky to go away and how he got so emotional, he felt like he had been left behind by another person who he considered to be family, also the time when he was running with the people from the neighborhood on there bikes, i don't know I just feel that's when he felt confident and felt that he was ready for the fight, but most of all the fight, no one thought he would amount to anything, but yet he makes it to the 12th round and knocks pretty down to the ground something no one else has done.
ReplyDeleteI feel that Adonis is out to prove that he is not in this fight in this life because of who is father is, yes without all that he would not have had rocky, not had have the big fight without the name, but he never knew his father, his father was not even alive for 1 second of his life, he has trained and made it to where he is all alone, he has made himself the fighter that he is, and he wants everyone to know that he has made it and that even though it was all on his own that he still carrys the name of creed in a good way, he's no fake.
Adonis has never had a real family, he's been put into fake family, so anyone close to him who he cares for or knows well is his family, rocky is the closest thing to a father I think that Adonis has had but I think the name unc fits well, rocky is a huge support for Adonis something he has never had in a coach or father, no one else would train him but Rocky does and fits the role perfectly.
I feel that people always expect me to be so much better at basketball than I really am since my dad is a coach, but I'm really just average, I think I know the game better than anyone on my team last year and people would look to me for advice/coaching but when it comes to the fiscal talent i don't have it, so in some degre I'm not what people expect but I find that to be ok because I'm not my dad I'm Will, I like who I am and I'm sorry that I'm not amazing
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ReplyDelete1) I wasn't crazy excited for this movie, but I also wasn't dreading it or anything. So far, it's pretty good. There are a couple of things in it that are just a bit over the top, like the singer who has progressive hearing loss, but I like it. I'm curious to see how it plays out, but I don't know that I'd call myself "captured." Not knowing all of the background, it feels a little confusing, but not too bad.
ReplyDelete2) We see him fighting at the very beginning, before he even knows who his dad was, so we know Adonis is drawn to boxing because of more than just that. He seems to be very competitive, which can turn into a stereotypical hyper-masculine thing like boxing. I think he also wants to be better than his dad. We see him pretending to fight him with the projector, and he seems to think he can be a boxer and live, something his dad couldn't do. He also is determined to do this solely based on his own merit, since he doesn't tell anyone other than Rocky that Apollo Creed was his dad. This is essentially the story of a young man who wants to prove himself.
3) It's something that even the best, though celebrated, can't really deal with. Being this larger than life, aggressive type isn't good or healthy. Big boxers are ways for everyone else to get some of the feeling of victory without having to deal with the pain or injuries. It ultimately kills Apollo Creed, one of the best, and any long-term boxer will eventually slow down and suffer the same kind of injuries. We romanticize it, but it's no good for the people involved, and it seems like everyone on the inside knows that, at least everyone on the inside with the benefit of hindsight.