I have to include as well these 2 other lines of dialogue from different parts of the movie:
Ennis: “We can get together every once in a while out in the middle of nowhere.”
•
Jack: “The truth is sometimes I miss you so much I can
hardly stand it.”
As we often request, when you answer the questions, try to draw on specifics from the movie.
1. What scene stands out for you and why?
2. First of all, how would you describe the two characters, Ennis (Ledger) and Jack (Gyllenhaal)? Write a couple of sentences for each telling how you see them as people.
2. First of all, how would you describe the two characters, Ennis (Ledger) and Jack (Gyllenhaal)? Write a couple of sentences for each telling how you see them as people.
3. What causes
them to have made compromises in their lives? What are the benefits of these? What are the costs?
4. How has this
movie affected your thinking about homosexuality?
1) The scene that stands out to me is the first time (i think) we see Elma and Ennis having sex. Ennis's approach in this moment is almost identical to his approach with Jack. The aggressive nature, turning her around and just pounding away. This was the moment that confirmed he wasn't bisexual, but repressing his homosexuality. It seemed to me like he was imagining Jack, and just before their divorce he says "you dont want another one of my kids?" as if sex with her is only for reproduction, not pleasure.
ReplyDelete2) Ennis is a very lonely person. In the tent with Jack, he clings to him and seems to crave not a sexual partner, but a lover to keep by his side. He is also very tortured by his sexuality. After the summer with Jack, we see him walking along a road, then all of a sudden dry heaving and slamming his fist against a wall. He also mentions how his father showed him a gay man tortured and killed for being himself, and that has to way heavily on his mind. He knows that many people would kill him for who he is, and therefore CANT be who he is. Ennis seems clinging to his manhood, in the sense that he fights so quickly with others and often turns to physicality when not needed.
Jack is a softer character than Ennis. We see him crying several times due to the emotional turmoil his relationship with Ennis causes, and he seems to be more in touch with his homosexuality and emotions than Ennis. He openly flirts with men in bars, and goes to Mexico to find male prostitutes when Ennis turns him away. Jack seems to have a better view on life than Ennis, who makes fun of Jack and gets angry at him for being more optimistic. He also is at times very manly. At thanksgiving he confronts his father in law and takes his place as head of the family.
3) The main cause of compromise in their life is societal pressures surrounding homosexuality. These pressures result in Ennis's father teaching Ennis to hate gays, Ennis and Jack having to hide their sexuality and possibly disliking themselves for who they are. Obviously they by compromising they avoid being killed in a hate crime or judged openly for who they are, but they arent allowed to be happy. Jack and Ennis cant be together because of these compromises, leading Jack to say: “The truth is sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it.”
4) I've grown up with a gay older brother who has not only educated me about the struggles he faces, but influenced my actions and the way I dress to the point that many people think Im gay when they first meet me. Relationships are hard even as a straight guy, and I cant imagine having to deal with the regular stress AND the stress that society imparts on you. Im not sure my views or thinking of homosexuality have changed, as I was very sympathetic to gay issues before watching, but Thrower(maybe John?) brought up a good point in class. Would we view Ennis's affair the same if it was with another woman? No. we wouldn't. That being said, I think we would still justify it because he is so obviously in love with Jack, and we understand the motivation behind his actions. He isnt acting with lust, he is following his heart.
1. One moment that stuck out to me was Ennis's memory of seeing the gay man who had been killed. It really drove home how different a time and place this was. Now we know that homophobia is a problem and all, but things have started to change. But back in the sixties and seventies, you could get murdered like this if people found out. That helped me keep the context of the rest of the movie in mind much more. It helps me understand why Ennis especially was so reluctant to express his homosexuality.
ReplyDelete2. Ennis is a very stiff, reserved person. I think this comes from his upbringing. Having lost his family once, he doesn't want to build another and lose it. This also is probably affected by concealing his homosexuality. If you walked around every day with a secret that could get you killed, it would be hard not to close up. Jack is a lot more emotionally and socially open. He's more willing to accept his gayness, as shown by how he goes to Mexico for a male prostitute. He also is the one who does most of the talking, and brings up living together and building a new life.
3. They've made compromises basically because they felt they had to. Ennis doesn't think they can live a life together, so he settles for living a different life than he would like to. Keeping in mind the taboo of homosexuality in this period, their compromises have allowed them to be part of society and not be rejected. However, especially for Ennis, this has made life difficult and not very enjoyable. It has also hurt Ennis's wife.
4. It reinforces what I already knew about hard it was and to a lesser degree still is to be gay in America. For a long time, you had to be in the closet, and many people lied to themselves to try to avoid the fact that they were gay. It's hard for me to imagine the difficulty of living without being able to be open about who I loved.
The scene that stuck out to me the most was when Jack was driving home after seeing Ennis with his kids after the divorce. Jack made a 14 hour commute to come see Ennis after the divorce and there was such hope in his mind. He thought that finally he would be able to spend more time with Ennis now that he had divorced Elma. When Jack got there, Ennis was happy to see him, but said that he needed to focus on his kids because he only sees them once a month. This crushed Jack's hopes. Jack shot for the moon and thought this could mean that they could live together, but Ennis continued the same life.
ReplyDeleteI think Jack is an idealist. His ideas about the future are often unobtainable, yet he suggests them anyway. Also, Jack is a very gentle and emotional person. When in society he tries and succeeds at hiding his true emotions and gentleness, but he isn't very aggressive or "manly". Ennis, on the other hand, is very realistic. He often can be seen shooting down Jack's idealistic views. Ennis also is very lonely and yearns for a true lover, someone who can comfort him. Lastly, Ennis is aggressive. He is "manly" and a fighter which is why he struggles so much with his sexuality.
The reason the two of them have compromised love is so they can survive. The sheep owner wouldn't let Jack back because he realized he was gay. If the two of them lived together, then getting a job and gaining acceptance would be tough. Society would hate them and they might end up dead if they went with their desires. However, their lives aren't good. They are in essence living a lie. Ennis is always afraid that he will be found out and Jack misses Ennis so much he can hardly bear it. This life is equivalent to the feeling where your fingertips can tough something but it's just outside your grasp.
This just reaffirmed that homosexuals see just people. They function the same way on almost every level but the sexual level. This didn't make me view them any differently, it just reaffirmed what I already knew and believed.
ReplyDeleteThere is a scene that shows a compilation of the times when Ennis leaves Jack. We see Jack repeatedly get hurt by this pain he feels when he is without Ennis. This scene shows an example of how the relationship started off as one sided and is now one sided in many ways. Ennis had some confusion in the past about his sexuality, while Jack was completely confident. Now Ennis is married and has a job, while Jack is single and is only a doing a small amount of work. This scene does a great job of showing the emotions that go through Jack's mind as he watches Ennis leave his life repeatedly.
Ennis is the rough and tough looking man who on the inside is very sensitive and has had a rough past. We learn that he had experiences seeing other gay men getting killed by the civilians.We know Ennis wants to live on a ranch. Ennis is also a very hardworking and loving man as he expresses if both with his wife and Jack. We know that Jack does have homosexual feelings, but he doesn't want to face them in fear of being hated by the community.
Jack is also strong and intimidating on the outside, but on the inside is a caring gentlemen. He is more open with his emotions and homo sexual feelings and wants Ennis to come out and let him know it is okay to accept his identity. Jack also knows how to have fun while working hard. His identity although doesn't match his stereotypical tough and gritty career of doing rodeos.
Ennis is already in a relationship and is engaged, while Jack's father has pneumonia and needs help on the ranch. The two characters also have different interests as Ennis wants to own a ranch and Jack wants to do rodeos and ride horses. These characters must take separate paths because of these conflicts and it is helpful because they both get to do what they want and have their desired careers, but at the same time they must hide and break a relationship and strong bond they had. They still get to meet up and love each other, but they are unable to have a true and real relationship.
So far my idea of homosexuality has stayed the same. In this movie we get to see the hardships that homosexual men must deal with, when they hide their identity. We also see a culture and community that is hateful toward homosexuals, while the time we live in is close to the opposite.
There are two scenes that stand out to me the most. The first being the scene in which Ennis and Jack see each other after four years of being away. Ennis's whole mood changes when he sees jack through the window and rushes down to great him, just as you would expect somebody who hadn't seen there lover in a long time to do. When Ennis and Jack are face to face they immediately embrace each other and don't hesitate to kiss, without caring who saw them. It just so happened to be that Ennis wife saw them, changing her life for ever, but while embracing this thought didn't occur to Ennis. I think the naturalness and also careless action of this scene made it standout. The second scene was when they are at the Fourth of July fireworks show. I liked this scene because it was pretty badass and the imagery that Thrower pointed out was nice.
ReplyDeleteEnnis is a lonely, shy cowboy. He grew up that way and has been his whole life, but opens up around Jack. This is why he loves and needs Jack in his life, because jack loves him and he had never felt that connection with somebody before. Jack is the opposite. He still opens up around Ennis but is more outgoing. He is more emotional also and acts as the loving caring type in the relationship.
They compromise so they aren't killed, to survive and also to fit in with the social standards. Ennis knows the reality and it being that they can't live the life they want to together so they both settle for seeing each other only once in a while. Ennis and Jack are both also compromising by sacrificing there relationships with there wives to be with one another.
Like others are saying it reenforced my view points on gays and how they are just seen as normal people but have to struggle a lot more because of there homosexuality.
ReplyDelete1. The scene that stands out to me is when Elma sees Jack and Ennis kissing. The difference of emotions on each side really struck me. Jack and Ennis are very passionate, while Elma is shocked and sad. This scene also brought up a question in my mind of how Elma would react if she saw Ennis kissing another woman rather than a man. Most likely, she would react angrily and confront Ennis, rather than taking many years to say something about it. This shows how homosexuality is rare and shocking in this society and time period, causing great shock to Elma before she realizes that Ennis loves Jack more than her.
2. I would describe Jack as sensitive and in touch with his feelings, at least more than Ennis. He is not afraid of his feelings and not afraid to act on them, shown both when he makes the first move on Ennis on the mountain and when he sends the postcard years later, being the first of the two men to contact the other. Ennis is more tough and bottled up, concealing his emotions. He rejects his homosexuality multiple times, and reacts in uncomfortable situations with anger. He has a quick temper, shown when he hits the men at the fireworks show.
3. The men must make compromises due to financial situations and the society they are in. They must take jobs that they may be unhappy with and leave each other due to their financial situation. They must support themselves and their family, and cannot leave their jobs for more than a week or so at a time. Their main compromise is due to the society they live in, where gay men are shunned and even killed for their sexuality, shown in Ennis’s flashback. They cannot let their sexuality be known for the safety of themselves as their family, as well as keeping their family together for the sake of their children. The one benefit of these compromises is that they get to raise children and have a a family. While managing the family is tough for each of the men, raising children is commonly very rewarding.
4. This movie didn’t change my views on homosexuality, simply reinforcing what I already knew. It is hard to be a homosexual in today’s world, and sacrifices and compromises must be made. While society is advancing in a positive direction for homosexuals, it is still hard to live as one, and was incredibly tough in the time period of Brokeback Mountain. The men must conceal their feelings and be away from their true loves due to the social stigma against homosexuality and the possible danger that it could bring them and their family.
the first time that they made love, would be the scene that stood out to my the most, the way ennis was really not sure what he was doing, but jack knew what he wanted
ReplyDeleteennis was more of a man to me, and Jack more of a kind persone, I think they were very similar but ennis more realistic when it comes to there realationship
they both know what they are doing is not allowed in there time in there perfection, ennis sacrificed his family and Jack did not have to give much up but driving all the time
It stayed the same
1. I think the scene that stands out for me is the scene where Ennis is about to leave on another "fishing trip" with Jack, and as Ennis is leaving, Elma asks him "aren't you forgetting something?". Ennis quickly remembers to get the bait, but what he forgets to do is kiss his wife. ELma subsequently cries. I may be reading too much into that scene. But for me I felt that that was one of Elma's breaking points. At that point, Ennis seemed to finally place his relationship with Jack over the marriage between Elma and Ennis. It finally hit her that she no longer was the most important person in his life. We as the viewers knew the importance of the bond between Jack and Ennis far before Elma, but in that moment, Elma realizes that she has "lost" Ennis.
ReplyDelete2. Ennis is your typical "manly man". He is a tough man who doesn't like to share his emotions. But what we do see as the movie progresses is that he doesn't want sex, but love. Passion. A lover to be beside him and take care of him. Jack is more of a man who wears his heart on his sleeve. We see him cry a few times throughout the movie, though he can be a man when he needs to be, like in the Thankgiving scene with his wife's family. Him asserting himself doesn't seem to be a frequent thing, since even his wife is impressed when he confronts his father-in-law.
2.We have to remember that it is the 60's (and 70's). As a new generation, we are more tolerant of sexuality differences, and the like, but back then, even 50 years ago, homosexuality truly was considered a disease. You saw what they did to the man in the West. In order to literally stay alive, Jack and Ennis have to build a facade so people don't suspect them of homosexual activity. The guise of a fishing trup works, though them kissing in front of Elma doesn't. A benefit is that they lead their own lives and stay safe. The cost is they don't get to conduct their lives together, and constantly have to adjust to keep a working plan for preserving the bond.
4. How has this movie affected your thinking about homosexuality?
As a devout Christian, it takes a lot of me to look at the world through an objective point of view when it comes to morality. Until I came to Paideia, I was a pretty big opponent of gay marriage, and certain gay rights. However, seeing the people we have at our school helped me realize that regardless of a person's sexuality, gender orientation, etc, they are still people, and they have to continually struggle with the hardships that our society has placed on them. This movie only reinforced my beliefs about homosexuality, and made me feel sorry for the hardships they had to encounter even as short as 50 years ago.
The two love scenes stood out to me the most because of their aggressiveness and tenderness. They both made me the most uncomfortable, but also made me think the most about what exactly was happening. The aggressive, somewhat drunken mentality that surrounded the first scene was a bit disturbing. The violent thrusts were not very comforting. I think the most important part about the two scenes is seeing how much easier it is for Jack to kiss Ennis and be tender with him. Throughout the relationship between the two that we've shown, Jack has always been the more openly and seemingly more comfortable homosexual. While Ennis I think, has always struggled with it, and that's why it's so hard for him to be tender towards/love Jack.
ReplyDeleteEnnis seems more tentative and unsure about his homosexuality in the beginning, but comes more into his own once Jack introduces him to it and kind of guides him through it. Ennis' voice is also so deep, his whole personality directly resembles the typical stereotype of a cowboy (except for his gayness). Jack is more comfortable with his sexuality and instigates the sex between them and the other things that relate to love.
Society and its hatred towards homosexuality during that time period. There really are no benefits. I mean one is that when they married each others' wives they are now portrayed as heterosexual and completely, 100% that. There are much more costs though, if anyone finds out they look down on you, won't let them work for you, etc. You could get killed for being a homosexual in this time period. Jack is constantly cheating on his wife with another man and she knows nothing about it. Ennis and his original wife divorce because of it.
It hasn't really effected my thinking about it at all. I've never had anything wrong with homosexuals or homosexuality, I think it's love, and love is a beautiful thing regardless of what two sexes it's between.
1. I remember the scene in which Ennis and Jack are talking by the river. There is a sense of urgency but also calm; we know that they are very content to sit by the fire together, but the two men and the audience know that it cannot last. Their lives are composed of long stretches of work, fear, and anger, interspersed with short windows of happiness.
ReplyDelete2. I think Ennis was forced to grow up too fast, due to his parents' death and due to becoming a father at a young age. He is a stoic guy, but there are also boyish and tender elements of his personality. I think it is somewhat appealing to Ang Lee that though he is a physically imposing, independent man – who can back up his words with fists – he is at the mercy of his circumstances. He cannot control what people think of him; nor can he cannot handle his own family particularly well.
Jack is more thoughtful and at ease with haim self, but he deals with adversity worse than Ennis – he is more deeply affected by the unfulfilling nature of their lives. I think it is worth noting how Ang Lee is playing on Western tropes. Ironically, Jack and Ennis have relationships with very attractive women. Moreover, those women push themselves on the Cowboys, indicating that they are irresistibly attractive. The audience might expect that it would be harder for a gay man to have a romantic relationship with a woman because he must fabricate his emotions, but, if anything, the opposite is true.
3. There's hardly a choice. Ennis saw what happened to the two older gay men in his hometown. The effects of living with a woman are essentially all negative. The kids seem fine, but neither man is a great father. Both seem unhappy and preoccupied. They can't take charge of any part of their lives.
4. I wouldn't say it's had a major effect, but I'm not used to seeing homosexuality in such rugged characters. If the movie is intended to promote gay rights, that cause is helped by the fact that the movie is technically very strong. In addition to grappling with the issue of homosexuality, it has mountain scenery, period sets, and realistic family drama. The movie outperformed expectations in American small-towns, and I think that's because it is so well-done overall, but I would also argue that it is not especially offensive to conservative viewers (other than the sex scene): it is true to life, and the argument could even be made that the men would be better off if they could stop feeling for each other. That said, the movie presents homosexuality as very natural and even starkly masculine.
I think the most powerful scene to me was when Elma was telling Ennis about the not she put in his fishing gear. How it remained untouched just confirming what she already knew which was that her husband was gay. It was powerful to me not only because she brought it up in the first place but by the way he reacted. He knows what could happen if it were to get out that he were a homo sexual so by threatening to hurt her (as he ofter does) he is making sure that will never get out.
ReplyDeleteEnnis is a quiet and troubled man. He’s lived a hard life by being a closet homosexual after seeing a man who was killed for being gay. Not only that but his parents died making life even harder. I think he’s resilient but he needs to work on his anger problems. Jack is a gold digger (maybe). He’s married into a rich family where his problems are lesser than Ennis’. The problem with Jack in my eyes is his willingness to drop everything once a month and go up to see Ennis. My issue with both of these characters is the way they are cheating on their wives and kids. I think that they have excuses however that is a shitty shitty thing to do.
I think that them getting married was because of the societal pressures that men had in that time to get married and have kids. The benefit is they have a beard to hid their true selves and they get kids, which both gay and straight men want (sometimes). It’s costly because they are risking getting caught by someone when they go on there fishing trips. If they remained single then they wouldn’t get caught as easily.
It hasn’t really changed my mind about it as a whole, only in the 60’s. I have grown up with a gay uncle, 4 lesbians couples have lived on my street in my life, and I go to Paideia. I have always been very exposed to things that are ‘different’ and this ‘PC’ life I’ve lived has led me to be very accepting and open minded.
The scene that sticks out to me was the one where he's remembering the gay guy who got killed. Not only does it show how rejected it is in the society but also how he is going completely against which was to be very hateful towards homosexuality. He says that his father went out of his way to go show him the body at the age of 9 which speaks to the hatred he must've had for that sexual orientation. He even admits his father could be even been the one to do the killing in the first place. This could be a very big cause of struggle in his life knowing that his father is dead and once his father is dead going completely against his wishes, not only that but he does cheat on his fiancé. As people Jack is the stereotypical cow boy reserved and can be very angry when provoked it's pretty clear of that when he seems to attack the wall for those moments of rage. He's such a hurt person. Meanwhile Ennis is portrayed as more of the feminine character that may just be because of the sexual encounter they had but he seems to be more in touch with his feelings and more sensitive like the stereotypical woman. He seems more hopeless than angry he seems to be more accepting of his orientation and pushes to make more of it with Jack even though he hits a brick wall every time. I think that no matter if they're gay or straight to have to hide who you are is not only unhealthy but it makes the difference in living a happy life or a miserable one. I am generally mindful of homosexuality it's a common thing and while I'm not aware of the struggles that go into it which I'm sure are extensive I can imagine. This movie shows homosexuality for what I can imagine what it is the highs and the lows.
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